[haXe] OSCON

[hank williams]

Thanks Richard,

I appreciate your input as I do know that you seem to be quite
knowledgable about this subject and I have been quite curious about
it. Your boil down is very helpful.

What's interesting about your comment though is that database is so
intrinsic to web sites that to conceed the space you seem to conceed
to ruby and rails would, it seems to me, not be a good sign for haXe &
web development. I would rather suggest that if ruby & rails so nail
databases, and haXe is intended to do web sites, then it needs to
aspire to be as good as or better as a solution. Perhaps there is some
corner of DDWD that haXe could do better. Cuz the thing is, I just
cant imagine doing many meaningful websites in 2006+ that are not
DDWS's.

Regards
Hank

On 7/31/06, Richard Kilmer <rich at infoether.com> wrote:
> Yes, but its not just Ruby's dynamism.  Ruby has very flexible syntax
> which allows APIs to appear extremely domain specific.  Rails is really
> just a domain specific API for database-driven web sites.  I don't
> think it
> would feel the same in another less flexible syntax.  I know Rails is
> more than that (community, personality, etc) but the crux of it is the
> DSL for DDWD (and I know a bit of what I speak when it comes to
> Ruby & Rails ;-)
>
> The most interesting thing about a new language, to me, is what its
> runtime enables.  The incredibly unique thing that haXe supports is
> a single language that can target multiple runtimes.   Rails nails the
> database-driven web space IMHO...the question is what is a good
> target for haXe?  I mean, you can do database-driven web development
> with haXe but its an interesting question on what uniquely powerful
> thing could haXe enable that you just cannot do as well with some
> other language?
>
> It would be fun to hear folks thoughts on that question.
>
> Best,
>
> Rich
>
> On Jul 31, 2006, at 7:46 PM, hank williams wrote:
>
> > Thats a really interesting usability benefit that comes from the
> > purely dynamic world. Of course you can make everything dynamic but
> > that would be politically incorrect in the haXe world :). But its hard
> > to argue with the clear productivity people seem to be getting from
> > what almost sounds like a marriage between the database and the
> > programming language.
> >
> > Hank
> >
> > On 7/31/06, Yariv Sadan <yarivvv at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> One thing to know about Ruby's syntax is that, as opposed to haXe,
> >> Ruby is entirely dynamic. With Rails, you create basically emply
> >> classes for your objects, and the methods and properties of the
> >> classes are injected into them at runtime based on the database
> >> schema. For instance, let's say you have a 'people' table with an
> >> 'id'
> >> and a 'name' field. Then you would have a class 'Person' that looks
> >> like
> >>
> >> class Person < ActiveRecord::Base
> >> end
> >>
> >> In your code, you can write things such as
> >>
> >> p = Person.new
> >> p.name = "bob"
> >> p.save
> >>
> >> people = Person.find_by_name("bob")
> >>
> >> These tricks are possible because the compiler doesn't check the
> >> validity of the code in compile time. The same would be possible in
> >> haXe if everything were untyped, but that would be against the haXe
> >> "static whenever possible" philosophy.
> >>
> >> Yariv
> >>
> >> On 7/31/06, Roberto Saccon <rsaccon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ruby is so simple, you don't have to learn it, you just start
> >> using it
> >> > and rails has helpers for Javascript, so you can write an ajaxified
> >> > web app without knowing anything about javascript. And they have a
> >> > great marketing talent as lead developer, those are the ingredients
> >> > for their success recipe !
> >> >
> >> > On 7/31/06, hank williams <hank777 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Thanks. So it sounds like (and I have heard elsewhere) that the
> >> > > database abtraction is pretty much the key to rails. So how
> >> would you
> >> > > compare ruby to haXe. Again, there seem to be a lot of people
> >> loving
> >> > > the ruby syntax. It seems (from what I've heard) a little odd
> >> in some
> >> > > of its syntax, but what do you think about the comparative
> >> benefits
> >> > > between haxe and ruby?
> >> > >
> >> > > Hank
> >> > >
> >> > > On 7/31/06, Yariv Sadan <yarivvv at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > Rails is basically a server side MVC framework for building
> >> webapps
> >> > > > using the Ruby language. It has a very good database
> >> abstraction layer
> >> > > > -- ActiveRecord -- and many helpful libraries for form
> >> validation,
> >> > > > AJAX, unit testing, etc. Rails's greatness is that it tries
> >> -- and
> >> > > > largely succeeds -- at making web development highly
> >> productive. Other
> >> > > > frameworks (even Neko) do similar things as Rails, but Rails
> >> is just
> >> > > > very well packaged and it also has a very active community.
> >> If you
> >> > > > haven't used Rails, I recommend playing with it a bit just
> >> to get a
> >> > > > sense of what features it has as there's no reason they
> >> can't be
> >> > > > ported to other languages, esp haXe/Neko.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yariv
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > This is interesting. I dont know much about rails other
> >> than that it
> >> > > > > seems to be *very* productive. How does haXe and nekotools
> >> relate to
> >> > > > > haXe. My impression is rails has some very specific stuff
> >> that makes
> >> > > > > building apps a snap. I have had some of it described to
> >> me but since
> >> > > > > I have never tried I cant remember much about it. But it
> >> would be cool
> >> > > > > for haXe to out do ruby in terms of the things that the
> >> ruby folks
> >> > > > > think is so good and to have a server side frame work to
> >> out do rails.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hank
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --
> >> > > > > haXe - an open source web programming language
> >> > > > > http://haxe.org
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > haXe - an open source web programming language
> >> > > > http://haxe.org
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > haXe - an open source web programming language
> >> > > http://haxe.org
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Roberto Saccon
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > haXe - an open source web programming language
> >> > http://haxe.org
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> haXe - an open source web programming language
> >> http://haxe.org
> >>
> >
> > --
> > haXe - an open source web programming language
> > http://haxe.org
>
>
> --
> haXe - an open source web programming language
> http://haxe.org
>